PCC admits they don't represent town

In an article in today's ProJo, PCC, Inc. President Larry Fitzmorris is quoted as saying, "I don’t recall us ever claiming to represent all the taxpayers of the town."

Unless Larry wants to claim he was misquoted (as he did vigorously on Tuesday) that's an admission that they are not fundamentally a "citizens group," but rather a members-only privately held corporation (formerly a dues-paying association) which has previously expended money in elections to advance their political agenda.

Thanks, Larry, for the clarification.

Comments

While the Portsmouth Concerned Citizens DO represent the town(they live in,and pay taxes in this town) ...How would it, or could it, be possible for ANY one group of people, and their personal views,and idea's...claim to "represent ALL of the(taxpayers) citizens",of this town, this is not possible(anywhere). Just as ALL of the elected officials, town council,school commitee, were NOT voted in by ALL of the (taxpayers) citizens of this town. Everyone is Free to vote for who they believe in,endorsements, or no endorsements. No one person,or group,can influence anyone's vote, assuming we all have a brain,and mind to think on our own.

"expended money in elections to advance their political agenda."
There is nothing wrong with this, We all have the right to spend our own out of pocket money(s) to endorse any candidate we choose. And by the way...you have NO proof of anything illegal done in this respect. "to advance their political agenda" ??? What do you do when you vote? advance someone else's(that you don't agree with),and not your own? I suppose you vote for whom your friend, or neighbor, tells you to vote for? or do you vote for whom you feel is the RIGHT (qualified), person, in YOUR own mind? this makes NO sense at all.

For you to keep trying to imply that the Portsmouth Concerned Citizens are not a "citizens group" is just plain stupid...They are ALL citizens of Portsmouth,and they are made up of a group...period. Just always remember to add the word Concerned...and then you will have it 100% correct.

I have a suggestion for you...The time you are spending at Reidy's, eating,and venting like some bitter old woman, you really should be taking long walks...You really need to become more concerned about your own health. Just from my own observation,and my own opinion...of course.

Stormie,
You admit they don't represent all the citizens. Thank you.

You admit they expended money to advance their political agenda. Thank you. There is a profound difference, in case you haven't realized, between voting, which is your absolute and unregulated right, and spending to influence an election which is regulated both at the state and Federal level. I have asked you several times to go read the RI Campaign Finance site where you can downlod the RI Campaign Finance Manual 2007. I urge you to read it. You do have the right to spend money to endorse candidates, but if you cross a certain threshold, you are required to report it. And yes, there are limits to how much groups and individuals can contribute. This is the law. Go look it up.

I didn't "imply" that the PCC is not a citizens group, Larry has admitted it. Go read his quote in the ProJo.

While I do not edit posts by folks here, I want to note my disgust at your sexist comment about older women. That kind of characterization has no place in civilized debate, and I call on you to apologize our senior citizens.

Kind Regards.
-j

p.s. While I appreciate your sincere concern for my health, if I desire medical advice, I will consult a licensed professional. Thanks anyway.

John, when someone or something is called “a poster child of…” this means “a particularly reprehensible example.” For example: “He was a living poster child for the evil potential of inherited wealth” (Jim Harrison).

The first sentence of second paragraph of the March 8, 2007, “Statement of Portsmouth Concerned Citizens Regarding Today’s Superior Court Decision in the Caroulo Suit” states the following: It is PUBLIC RECORD that in recent years the Portsmouth School Department has been a POSTER CHILD of financial mismanagement.”

This statement has no basis in factual reality and certainly not in the PUBLIC RECORD. I have reviewed not only the Portsmouth School Department’s data, but the data available in the PUBLIC RECORD. For example, data from the Rhode Island Department of Education (RIDOE at www.ridoe.net has links to all the “IN$ITE” data).

The conclusion based on this data is incontrovertible: We spend LESS money-per-student than nearly every other community in the state. This does not mean that we can’t do better, or that we can’t find efficiencies in critical and even controversial areas (like employee benefits) but it does mean that whatever else you might say, you can’t say “It is PUBLIC RECORD that in recent years the Portsmouth School Department has been a POSTER CHILD of financial mismanagement” unless you are LYING. (Actually, there are many other possible explanations, but none of them are complimentary; these include Ignorance, Stupidity and Clinical Megalomania).

So there.

The point is that the leadership of the PCC have repeatedly shown themselves to disdain truth. They are on a relentlessly negative INVECTIVE-filled campaign (as often seen in some of the PCC-supportive posts you get) the purpose of which we can only guess.

By the way, should anyone ever accuse me of being an MSG (McDaid Sycophant-Groupie) I want to point out that I don’t always agree with you, and don’t find you to be beyond criticism either. For example, you spelled “res ipsa” wrong.

"The point is that the leadership of the PCC have repeatedly shown themselves to disdain truth. They are on a relentlessly negative INVECTIVE-filled campaign (as often seen in some of the PCC-supportive posts you get) the purpose of which we can only guess."

Why would you(or anyone else) actually believe that there would be such a bad group of people, existing in this town for those soul purposes? People,(decent,hard working,taxpaying,citizens), living in this town, with the only purpose in their life to destroy it. Wow! If you believe this, you had better get to a good Doctor,(asap!) and get some meds, for that serious case of paranoia.

I fail to see anything "sexist" about the words, old, or bitter, even when used together... bitter old woman,bitter old man,bitter young woman,bitter young man...it all adds up to the same...just Bitter,just bitter old man,just bitter old woman,just bitter young man, just bitter young woman. The fact that you would twist this to make it appear "sexist" is (no suprise) and so typical of you...you love to twist words,don't you, when you have nothing else to come back with. This is your only defense, twist,and spin on words(you are good at it), to make the other guy look bad. Perfect example of everything you(try) to say about the "PCC". Such drama! you really could write for Soaps,perhaps you missed your calling?
Since I have done LOTS of work with our Senior citizens,and spend a great deal of time helping,and very supportive of them,I have many elderly friends,and not one of them, (by the way) is as bitter as you are. I feel that I owe NO apology to anyone, and above all you..Who I may add has had very little respect shown for Mrs. Melvin,and other members of the PCC(elders), with your name calling...etc..But we won't go there, will we John...as long as they are PCC members you feel it is appropriate behavior. If anyone owes an apology it is you to Mrs. Melvin(for one).I was raised to respect my elders. And did not direct it toward anyone personally,and by name, as you have,many times.

"You admit they expended money to advance their political agenda. Thank you. There is a profound difference, in case you haven't realized, between voting, which is your absolute and unregulated right, and spending to influence an election which is regulated both at the state and Federal level. I have asked you several times to go read the RI Campaign Finance site where you can downlod the RI Campaign Finance Manual 2007. I urge you to read it. You do have the right to spend money to endorse candidates, but if you cross a certain threshold, you are required to report it. And yes, there are limits to how much groups and individuals can contribute. This is the law. Go look it up."

I have looked it up, and have read,and know the laws, backwards ,and forwards. And I will say(for the last time) , You have NO proof that any laws have been broken, NO facts that any contributions have exceeded the limit, None. Do you know the law for(slander), slandering one's good reputation? I suggest you look that one up.

Thank you for admitting..."You do have the right to spend money to endorse candidates". And Thank you for already admitting that you have NO proof that any laws have been broken... You are only stretching(again) to try and get something(anything) on The Portsmouth Concerned Citizens.

"You admit they don't represent all the citizens. Thank you."

Who do you know that represents ALL of the citizens? In all do respect for the town council...there are certain members who do NOT represent ME,my thoughts,my opinions,or my idea's, of the way this town should be run,and how,when,and where,my money should be spent. But they too are part of the committee, like it, or not, and I do respect them for their service(anyway).Also the FACT they were voted in(not by me) but by enough citizens in this town to deserve to be there, I do have to respect that. Unlike you who continues to show NO respect for anyone who disagree's with your way of thinking. Your (know it all) attitude problem has "no place in civilized debate".

"I didn't "imply" that the PCC is not a citizens group"
YAY! progress! That is exactly my point...They are nothing more,and nothing less, than a group of concerned Portsmouth citizens, who are only trying to look out for the betterment of this town. but you do imply(over,and over,again) that they are bad people,who want to ruin this town, you talk as if they are all a bunch of gangsters,or evil doers...with bad intentions for all...What would be the reason,or purpose,for any group of concerned citizens to do this?

You have the right to start your own group John, endorse your own candidates,fund raise(within' the legal limits,of course),and stick up for whom ever,and whatever, you strongly believe in. That is why this is the best country in the world, GOD bless America,and John too! Though I doubt you could get more than say maybe 5-10 members to join up. Not unlike your blog here where you may have many (curious guest readers) but only a handful of actual members. And now you have even one less(guest), I have no time anymore for this nonsense, and many things on my to do list, before winter sets in.

Enjoy this beautiful Autumn day, and don't forget to take a walk. :)

Was nice knowing you(sorta).

Stormie

Stormie...
I'm very glad to hear that you will not be back, because I was going to ask you to refrain from posting unless and until you apologize for the sexist, ageist remark. Your offhand dismissal, "I fail to see anything "sexist" about the words, old, or bitter, even when used together" sounds suspiciously like the first line of defense of everyone whose inner bias has been exposed. You even go on to say, "I have many elderly friends." And yet, you say about me, in what is clearly an insult, that I am "venting like some bitter old woman."

Yes, you need to apologize.

And no, I will not apologize to Ms. Melvin, who you assert to be a senior citizen. I do not judge people by their age or gender, but by the content of their character.

Regards.
-j

Stormie wrote, "And by the way...you have NO proof of anything illegal done in this respect."

To that I say, neither does the PCC, but that doesn't stop them (i.e. Larry Fitzmorris) from making accusations.

The PCC has no proof of anything done illegal with the 06-07 budget, yet they are stamping their feet, ranting and raving, that an investigation be undertaken into the illegal (in their deluded mind) actions of the town.

As School Committee member Dick Carpender said at last Tuesday's meeting, "As I say to individuals when they make unsubstantiated statements – show me the proof; don’t just throw things against the wall to see what sticks. If you have no proof then you are guilty of disseminating inaccurate and misleading data and an apology is due."

In this case, the PCC is guilty of disseminating inaccurate and misleading data. I'm waiting for Larry to apologize, but I don't ever expect he will because he will NEVER accept that his view of the law is wrong. If the Auditor General comes back and says Portsmouth acted in conformance with the law, Larry will not accept that answer. I don't think Larry would accept that the council acted in conformance with the law if God Himself said so. (or Herself or Itself or ... whatever).

"The PCC has no proof of anything done illegal with the 06-07 budget, yet they are stamping their feet, ranting and raving, that an investigation be undertaken into the illegal (in their deluded mind) actions of the town. "

The proof is all on paper, the figures,and the fact. There is NO denying that a VERY large sum of money was spent, Illegally,and well above what was agreed to, not only by the people of this town,but by the Judges decision.

"If the Auditor General comes back and says Portsmouth acted in conformance with the law, Larry will not accept that answer. I don't think Larry would accept that the council acted in conformance with the law if God Himself said so. (or Herself or Itself or ... whatever)."

IF being a very BIG keyword here...and IF it comes back that "Larry" was right...then what will you have to say? I have a feeling that you would be VERY sad even though the law had been broken, and the citizens of this town had been screwed! Why...because its a few people like you,and John who don't want to know, where,and how, they spend...just as long as they keep on spending! People like you who don't ask questions,just pay your taxes, no matter how high,and don't care, because you (obviously) can afford them, so...what does it matter to you? right? It doesn't matter to you that there are MANY of other people in this town who are(rightly) CONCERNED,about where,and how our(hard earned) money is spent. And ALL of these people deserve answers,and the respect, to ask the questions, It is OUR Right to do so...Even if a few, such as yourself, and John,do not want to know. I hope that you live near lots of sand,so that you are able to keep sticking your head into it, but sooner ,or later, you will have to come up for air.

"I don't think Larry would accept that the council acted in conformance with the law if God Himself said so. (or Herself or Itself or ... whatever)."

Refering to God as, "himself","herself", or "Itself"...Gee...I wonder how John would deal with that statement...had it come from me, or the PCC? I can only assume by it that you are one VERY confused person. But since you are one of his regular (Yes,everything you say is 100% accurate John,people), I suppose he will just sweep that one under the rug.

Don't bother to reply to this...I will not be coming back, I have wasted far too much time coming here as it is. I have made my point,and my opinions very clear. No need to go around in circles with it, or to defend myself.

Enjoy this beautiful Autumn day, and don't forget to take a walk. :)

Hi, Stormie...
I know you're gone, and you can't read this, but in a bizarre way, that makes the following comment all the more germane.

"Refering to God as, "himself","herself", or "Itself"...Gee...I wonder how John would deal with that statement...had it come from me, or the PCC?"

Actually, Stormie, I would have said, wow, that's a pretty smart thing, and my respect for you or the PCC would have gone up a notch. I studied what I consider to be a fair amount of philosophy as an undergrad, but know only enough Wittgenstein to be dangerous. One of the things I recall is "What we cannot speak about, thereof we must remain silent." Admitting that we are not certain about that which is fundamentally unknowable is a sign of humility. We may have faith, and be certain in our faith, but the very fact that we call it *faith* and not knowledge means that we should accept the limits of human fallibility.

Hope you do too. Have a nice life.

Cheers.
-j

(1)

Yes, Stormie, I will reply to this because I must. You have gone too far this time and I don't care if you read this or not, I'm posting it for everyone else to see, so folks can know what kind of person you are.

You, Stormie, said, "People like you who don't ask questions,just pay your taxes, no matter how high,and don't care, because you (obviously) can afford them, so...what does it matter to you? right?"

As a matter of fact, I'm unemployed right now. That's right, unemployed, as in, I don't have any money coming in the door. You better darn right well believe that I care about my taxes. I care more about taxes than you can possibly begin to imagine or appreciate. You have a lot of nerve telling me I don't care, and a lot of nerve assuming what I can or cannot afford. You don't know me at all. But, you're perfectly happy to make broad and gross assumptions about me. That's just wrong. People should not treat each other like that.

(2)

As for your opinions, yes you have made them clear. In your post you said, "The proof is all on paper, the figures,and the fact. There is NO denying that a VERY large sum of money was spent, Illegally, .."

Sure, no one can deny money was spent.

FACT: No one is denying the dollar amounts. The town administration and the PCC AGREE ON THE FIGURES! NO ONE IS DISPUTING THE NUMBERS!

Where you go horribly wrong, Stormie, is in characterizing what happened as being done "illegally".

The town says everything was done in conformance with the law, and Larry (and you) say it was not. I am confident that the Auditor General will (again) side with the town.

So YES THERE IS DENYING that anything was done illegally.

Moreover, you go on to say that the "citizens of this town had been screwed". Screwed how? The tax rate set at the tent meeting didn't change. Sure, revenues were adjusted to track from fund balance. But the taxes set by the tent meeting weren't changed. If the council had never acted on the budget at all, your taxes would be exactly the same. Except, of course, for the Caruolo court order -- but those changes were made in conformance with the judge's decision.

So defend yourself, Stormie -- how exactly do you think the people of Portsmouth have been screwed when their taxes as set by the tent meeting were not changed (except by the court order).

Finally, you said, "Referring to God as, "himself","herself", or "Itself"...Gee... [...] I can only assume by it that you are one VERY confused person."

First of all, that was a joke. Sorry, I thought you had a sense of humor. Second, there you go again making unfounded assumptions about me. Third, that I am comfortable making jest by the juxtaposition of the inadequacy of the gender-based language of man against the ineffable nature of God makes me enlightened, not confused.

Have a nice day.

Hi, Lije...
Just wanted to thank you for your post, eloquent and reasonable as always, and express my sympathy for your current situation.

Best regards,
-j

Lije – I could not agree with you more.

It is my sincere belief that PCC members/supporters are made of three types of people: (1) the leadership of the organization, meaning Mr. Fitzmorris, Mr. Lorenz and several others (2) Good meaning but poorly informed individuals who are truly struggling with the rising cost of everything including taxes but who have absolutely no faith in anyone in government (including most elected individuals, appointed officials and volunteer representatives), and who really don’t understand Portsmouth, and who are taken in by anti-everything rants and (3) the tax-cut-for-the-wealthy (Shoreline Coalition) types. Mind you, I have no inside scoop, this is just my best estimation.

As for group #3 – the Tax Cut For The Wealthy Crowd – These people have as much credibility as the George W. Bush administration, and like that administration, they are quite capable of harming the greater community for their own benefit, even if it means not telling the truth. And (in public) they do this calmly, and with a smile.

As for those in group #2 – I can only hope and pray that they will make an effort to not take as Gospel Truth everything that anyone (including Larry) might happen to say. Many of these individuals may be capable of engaging in rationale argument, but I have resigned myself to try to accept that some may just incapable of doing so.

As for those in group #1: They are, ironically, the reason why I’ve allowed my love of Portsmouth, and my concern about its wellbeing, to take up my own personal time (doing things like researching the data on school costs).

"As for those in group #2 – I can only hope and pray that they will make an effort to not take as Gospel Truth everything that anyone (including Larry) might happen to say."

Hopefully that statement includes ...what John has to say,and yourself?

Stormie wondered how John would deal with the reference to God as, "himself, herself, or itself" if the remark had come from Stormie or from the PCC. I can't speak for John, but I do know how I would respond:

I would say: I agree with you; I am not an atheist - I do believe in a "higher power" but I am reluctant to think that I am capable of understanding much about this power, let alone what the power's "gender" may be. We want to know the true nature of this higher power, but sometimes the descriptive power of words is inadequate. Perhaps thats one reason why we have poetry, music and art.