Aquidneck Island and the State meet to talk sewers

NCCC meeting
L-R Tina Dolen (AIPC), Angelo Liberti (DEM), Saul Kaplan (RIEDC), Michael Sullivan (DEM), Michael Schrader (Woodard & Curran).

In a first-of-its-kind meeting, directors of three state departments (DEM, DOT, and EDC) met with leadership from Portsmouth, Middletown, and Newport and representatives of the Navy and O'Neill Properties to talk about the Island-wide issues of wastewater. Keith Stokes of the Newport County Chamber of Commerce hosted and moderated the two-hour event, and while the discussions produced no concrete decisions, the exchange of ideas around the table was cordial and productive.

"There have been a lot of discussions about who called the meeting and why," said RI DEM Director Michael Sullivan, "My intention as the responsible party was to discuss this from a statewide level. I tried to convene a group of individuals who had a stake; I'm foolish enough to believe we might forge a regional partnership."

Michael Schrader, the project manager from Woodard & Curran who is developing Portsmouth's facility plan described the ongoing work that led up to the meeting. Since the town is facing known issues with what is referred to as the Total Maximum Daily Load, or TMDL area in Island Park/Portsmouth Park, the immediate need is to develop a solution for those areas. However, given that the incremental cost of building a larger plant is low compared to the initial capital investment, Woodard & Curran are also preparing analysis of solutions reaching over to the West Side.

"As you go forward with a structural solution, looking at the cost per gallon and cost per user, there's a definite economy of scale," said Schrader. "Also, there was a desire to put a plant in [the West Side] that could serve some of the growth needs." And that was the exercise that led to this meeting: "If there's going to be a plant that solves more than just the smallest environmental problem in Portsmouth, who would be involved with that?"

The effort was applauded by representatives from both Middletown (who might conceivably have some people in the Northern end of town tie into a regional system) and Newport (who said they would welcome anything which reduced the flow they needed to process.) The spokesperson for the Navy literally said, "Alleluia." The US government, he said, was trying to get out of the business of managing utilities, and echoed support for a regional solution. He also was very clear that the "Navy will be excessing, divesting ourself of property," which is the most positive statement I've heard, though the specifics of when and what (all the tank farms?) were not spelled out.

The rep from O'Neill Properties offered logistical and and financial help. "The Bay is our best asset; we'll do anything we can do to keep it clean." He stressed that they were willing to pay for whatever they needed to do, and also offered their help in thinking through financing options. "Most homeowners are not like us with up-front capital availability," he said, "If you can make it X amount a month for the next 8 years with a way to finance you hooking in, that becomes much more palatable. To the extent you need help, our organization would be happy on a volunteer basis to particpate in that work. We buy sewage systems every day, and the average person doesn't."

And the cost of individual septic systems, the alternative to sewers, would be quite high for people in the TMDL. With the recently passed state legislation requiring the phase-out of cesspools, Portsmouth's Bob Gilstein noted that there were about 150 cesspools in the high-priority area of the TMDL alone (within 200 feet of the shoreline) which would be early targets of DEM action. At a cost of about $22K each, just those would add up to over $3 million out of the pockets of Portsmouth residents.

"If you're speding $22K a home, a tie in to Raytheon and a reconstruction of their plant would be competitive," noted the rep from O'Neill. (Sullivan was quick to point out that discussions with Raytheon had been more than a year ago, and had only been at a very high level, but that they remained interested, since they had an existing facility, and a DEM permit for discharge.)

Tina Dolen, the director of the Aquidneck Island Planning Commission, urged everyone to consider an Island-wide perspective. "We each have our town and city allegiances, but if we could leave the dancefloor and get up on the balcony, and look at the island as a whole. It really is one island," said Dolen. "Around this table, we have the money, connections, and creativity to move forward on this."

But when it came time for the Portsmouth contingent to have their say, Town Council President Dennis Canario expressed concerns. "While I can appreciate the need for regional system," said Canario, "This is something the Town Council has never discussed. It's of great importance that we follow our time schedule," he said, noting the tight timeframe before the proposed referendum in November. "I'm getting some concerns that this regional system will slow our process and cloud it to a degree that will affect the voters of Portsmouth." NCC meeting Portsmouth folks

Town Planner Bob Gilstein spelled out the rationale for having Woodard & Curran do the West Side analysis in the first place. The whole point, he said, was to see if "connecting to West Side would lower the cost for the TMDL enough to make enough a difference. If the answer is no," said Gilstein, "Maybe we do the TMDL by itself and consider the West Side by itself."

In addition, noted Town Administrator Bob Driscoll, "There are people who aren't convined we need a sewer system in the TMDL." There were even, he said, "People who don't think we need economic development."

Sullivan stressed that he understood and supported Portsmouth's need to keep our aggressive schedule to do what they needed to address the water pollution issues, and that he was willing to provide the town what latitude he could. Under the law, he said, "I act owner to owner. If the community acts, owners have shelter. If town collectively votes to address the sewer system, as long as we stay within the law I'm going to be supportive of the cost effective solution."

As a next step, Sullivan and Stokes promised to communicate with participants and schedule a follow-up with interested stakeholders.

The winner in this evening's the WTF category, Tailgunner Gleason's sole contribution to the discussion was to stop it. "Can we end this meeting," she said. "I've been here since 4:30 and I'm very hungry." Maybe next time, someone will remember to bring cookies. Who the hell voted for her?

Runner up for embarrassing-yourself-in-front-of-everyone award goes to the PCC's Forrest Golden, who managed to collapse one of the chairs and went ass-over-teakettle when he tried to sit down. Remember what Mel Brooks said: Tragedy is when I stub my toe; comedy is when YOU fall into a manhole.

The PCC was out in force. President Larry Fitzmorris was there with his posse (Cheshire Kathy, Liz Pietro, and Joe Robicheau) in addition to Slapstick Golden. They sat glowering suspiciously most of the time (I have pictures) but said nothing. Can't wait to see what is sure to be Larry's letter to the editor about some alleged boondoggle (despite Canario's best efforts to stress Portsmouth's insistence on our schedule).

Honestly. Does anyone really think the PCC cares about sewers, other than out of fear that they might enable development, and expand the tax base to support local government?

Comments

It's about time! Not mentioned is the fact that you can't have affordable housing if you don't have sewer systems. And if you don't have affordable housing, it's difficult to attract good economic development, including jobs.

Hi, Eileen...
I suppose it's technically possible to have affordable housing without sewers (I've heard that if Portsmouth could just get mobile homes reclassified as "affordable," we'd meet our state requirement overnight...) but it certainly adds to the cost and complexity.

And you really are going out on a limb assuming that we want "economic development." Attract businesses? Create jobs? That can only do one thing: increase the tax base. And you know where that leads: Bloated and inefficient local government, with its hand in your pocket for more and more money. That's why we have to hold the line on sewers.

It's all a conspiracy. It starts the the usual suspects, the folks with the (D) after their names says PCC, Inc. President Larry Fitzmorris, "It is becoming more and more apparent that there is an ongoing drumbeat being orchestrated to over-dramatize the need for public sewers in order to accommodate the future needs of developers. Our Town's Comprehensive Plan describes our character as semi-rural, but it appears that there are those in Town Government - motivated by the big taxes that developers pour into the town’s coffers - who are overly sympathetic to these developers."

Yeah. Having the Director of the DEM come to your Town Council and tell them quote, "you need to sewer," is just an excuse for the libtards on the Council to try to increase the size of government.

You must be one of those evil Democrats too, aren't you?

Cheers.
-j

That's right! The so-call "sewers issue" is just another back-room deal that the "support the schools" coven of democrats on the town council are using to boost taxes so they can have even more more money to spend! They don't care if the environment goes down the tubes as long as they have enough money to teach the kids "tree hugger" stuff about not destroying the planet! Ha! As if that could happen in our life times!

"Runner up for embarrassing-yourself-in-front-of-everyone award goes to the PCC's Forrest Golden, who managed to collapse one of the chairs and went ass-over-teakettle when he tried to sit down."

How you can say this since you came to Mr. Katzmans defense(and you never mentioned a word) about when he did the EXACT same thing at a town meeting not all that long ago. This is just one more very good example at just how all one-sided you really are. Yet you have the balls to wonder why the PCC does not invite you in with open arms? Why would any Portsmouth Concerned Citizen want any part of a, two-faced,biased,person, such as yourself, There are much more important things to address.
You are right however about"runner up award" to Mr. Golden, because Mr. Katzman already took first Place.

Oh, Stormie...
I must admit I've missed your delightful comments. How can I say this stuff? Because I'm a blogger, Stormie, and I cut people slack in proportion to the slack they give to others. It was this interchange at the wastewater meeting that got Golden his award:

The rep from O'Neill, about comparing costs of septic: "It's competive with public sewer. if you're spending $22K a home, a tie in to Raytheon and a reconstruction would be competitive."

Len Katzman: "Yes, but, there's a differnce as to who pays."

Forrest Golden (Interjecting, loud enough to be heard) "Amen."

Even in a public meeting, with municipal leadership from several towns and directors from state departments, Mr. Golden is so goshdarned self-righteous about his tax crusade that he can't follow the rules of social etiquette that we expect a first-grader to have mastered. He represents the PCC well, don't you think?

If a nice person falls down on their ass, we feel bad for them. A yutz, not so much.

And by the way, I refuse to accept your Swift-boat frame.

One sided, two-faced and biased? Yep, that's a good description of the PCC.

They decry secret meetings, but hold them. Every month.

Cheers.
-j

"One sided, two-faced and biased? Yep, that's a good description of the PCC.

They decry secret meetings, but hold them. Every month."

You fail to acknowledge the FACT that the "PCC"= more than 1,000 Portsmouth Concerned Citizens, it is made up of people who live in this town (pay their taxes), some for 40 years,or more. You insist on betraying them ALL as just an organization of evil doers,who are stupid,and with bad intent. Which makes you a fool to believe that anyone else (except perhaps your 5-6 faithful bloggers),who will agree with anything you say because they have a need to be different,and being accepted by you...well...I suppose is better than being accepted by no one else, Very sad.
Just remember who you are talking about every time you slam the "PCC" ....I say again...You are slamming over 1,000 of Portsmouth's Concerned Citizens, hard working,law abiding,tax payers...who have lived here for MANY years.
"If a nice person falls down on their ass, we feel bad for them. A yutz, not so much." Just shows what kind of a person you truly are. I understand that this is your blog...you can write anything you wish...however you need to understand why myself, and others think of you as a waste of space,and time,to even argue with such nonsense. Portsmouth Concerned Citizens do not need defending by me , or anyone else...they speak loud,and clear for themselves,and for what they believe is in the best interest of THEIR town...and certainly do not need the approval of one blogger who fails to recognize who these people are.
You have even questioned why they hold the meetings at the Anthony house, as if there is some underlying secret reason for it...simple truth of the matter is...it is FREE! Also ...to allow someone such as yourself, 1 blogger, who wants nothing more than to join these citizens/meetings...just for the sake of picking, and choosing, twisting words,and poking fun at these good citizens of this town,in order to spice up his blog...is just total BS...a waste of time,and energy...with so many more important issues to address.
I'm saying it one last time(for anyone that you may have confused)...PCC (very simply) = Portsmouth Concerned Citizens, nothing more,and nothing less!

Stormie, I agree with the heart of what you have said that members of the PCC are just folks and are not evil. I have spoken to PCC members who have even disagreed with "official" PCC statements. So it's not the 1000 or whatever PCC member with whom I take issue, it is the leadership of the PCC, made up of only a handfull of individuals.

I could cite chapter and verse about my gripes with the leadership of the PCC, for example the latest PCC "press release" which makes accusatory assertions without providing any facts to back up the accusations. That's just irresponsible rabble rousing.

So John can speak for himself, but for me -- whenever I say "PCC" I guess what I really mean is "leadership of the PCC".

I also want you to know this about me. You said, the members of the PCC, "speak loud,and clear for themselves,and for what they believe is in the best interest of THEIR town."

Well, Stormie, it's my town too! Born and raised here and plan to retire here. Heck, I'm second generation Portsmouth. I got Portsmouth roots! And I reserve my right to also speak loud and clear for myself and what I think is in the best interestst of MY town. If I determine that what is in the best interests of Portsmouth are not the same as the interests expressed by the PCC, whether leadership or membership, I will say so.

And as far the bias of this blog is concerned, so long as the coverage of town matters is more extensive and error free than that of the Daily News, Sakonnet Times or Projo (which it generally is) I'll keep reading it. At least the bias here is blunt and apparent. The Daily News bias is much more subtle and insidious and basically boils down to whatever will sell more papers. I'll take a cheap shot about a Forrest Golden prat fall any day over that kind of journalism.

"I could cite chapter and verse about my gripes with the leadership of the PCC, for example the latest PCC "press release" which makes accusatory assertions without providing any facts to back up the accusations. That's just irresponsible rabble rousing."

I can assure you that anything Mr. Fitzmorris says can be backed up with facts. He is a very intelligent man who has,and continues to work extremely hard on all of this,for a very long time. He would never say things just to say things off the top of his head without FACTS to back them up(this is what John would have us believe). Do you really think he is that stupid?This man is going to put himself before the councel,and the rest of the town,time after time and have NO facts, or bases to back up his words? If you want the facts as he speaks them, all you have to do is talk to him directly, he would be happy to explain(in detail), and back up every word. They also provide a news letter...etc...with more info.
Yes Lije you are 100% correct you do have the right to speak about what you believe is the best for your town as well...And I certainly hope that you will, And that we all will!

As far as the "leadership" goes...People would not join up if they disagreed with the leadership...I'm sure that some aren't in 100% agreement will everything that is said,or how it may be represented, by this so called"leadership" but then again...does anybody agree 100% with everyone, all of the time?I think not, and that applies to our own elected councel members as well.

You,John, and anyone else who disagrees with the "PCC" has every right to. But disrespecting,slamming,ridiculing...etc ...etc...the citizens of this town who do(freely) want to be a member..Then trying to join up? How do you make any sense of that?

Thanks for the encouragement.

Here's what I promise to do. I'll talk to Larry at my next opportunity (I don't go to every meeting he goes to) and I'll bring that press release with my questions. I promise to come back here to this blog entry and post without bias Larry's responses.

Then we can all judge fairly. If I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit it.

One more thing, though. I always worry whenever anyone says something like, "I can assure you anything so-and-so says is true." That's how dictators and demagogues gain power. Think of it this way -- do you trust your government officials whenever they say anything? No, of course not. Neither do I. Healthy scepticism keeps everyone honest. I'm not talking about some sort of relentless adversarial arguing and doubting. Just a little healthy scepticism. Well, just like the PCC is nothing more than a group of ordinary people, Larry included, so too is our government nothing more than a group of ordinary people. Healthy scepticism is necessary for Larry too. I'll never take anything blindly.

So that's that. I look forward to reporting back on my conversation with Larry.

Cheers.

Hopefully you will get the answers you are looking for. and just for the record..."Just a little healthy scepticism" ...is...well...healthy.

I never said to trust, or take anyone at his word, at everything he says...lets face it...we all took the President of the USA at his word and look at the mess it got us into! But...if President Bush can get wrong information, I suppose anybody can! Information is one thing, and facts are another.

I will be looking forward to your report back. Thank you.

Thu, 08/02/2007 - 6:04pm — Stormie
Hi Lije
"I could cite chapter and verse about my gripes with the leadership of the PCC, for example the latest PCC "press release" which makes accusatory assertions without providing any facts to back up the accusations. That's just irresponsible rabble rousing."

I can assure you that anything Mr. Fitzmorris says can be backed up with facts. He is a very intelligent man who has,and continues to work extremely hard on all of this,for a very long time. He would never say things just to say things off the top of his head without FACTS to back them up(this is what John would have us believe). Do you really think he is that stupid?This man is going to put himself before the council,and the rest of the town,time after time and have NO facts, or bases, to back up his words? If you want the facts as he speaks them, all you have to do is talk to him directly, he would be happy to explain(in detail), and back up every word. They also provide a news letter...etc...with more info.
Yes Lije you are 100% correct you do have the right to speak about what you believe is the best for your town as well...And I certainly hope that you will, And that we all will!

As far as the "leadership" goes...People would not join up if they disagreed with the leadership...I'm sure that some aren't in 100% agreement will everything that is said,or how it may be represented, by this so called"leadership" but then again...does anybody agree 100% with everyone, all of the time?I think not, and that applies to our own elected council members as well.

You,John, and anyone else who disagrees with the "PCC" has every right to. But disrespecting,slamming,ridiculing...etc ...etc...the citizens of this town who do(freely) want to be a member..Then trying to join up? How do you make any sense of that?